Forum Activity for @Clay

One place you can go is Chocolates Nahua. If I recall correctly, Juan Pablo Buchert is a member here on TheChocolateLife.

I will be heading to Costa Rica next month, and wondering if anyone had any recommendations on cacao farms to visit? Would love to see the full process of harvest, through fermentation. Any recommendations would be appreciated!

Used ACMC Table Top Tempering Unit. $750 or best offer.

Functioning, all original parts.

If interested contact miles@perfectfuel.com

Features

• Molded ABS Housing
• Injection moulded polyethylene scraper (dishwasher safe)
• Removable 5-Quart stainless steel bowl
• Uses 2-100 watt lamps as heat source
• Cooling fan is rated for continous use
• Clear Lexan night/dust cover
• Front panel with controls & digital display

• Minimum Capacity: 1 lb.
• Maximum Capacity: 6 lbs.
• Dimensions: 12 1/2"H x 14 1/4"W
• Electrics: 110/120v, standard US plug

 ACMC-whiteback.jpg - 26KB

I also was thinking about why these tempermeters are that expensive. After some research i found this page a few years ago: soncodipaul.weebly.com/tempermeter.html
It shows a cheap build tempermeter, but no description. After I sent him an email he replied with some info. He mentioned that the biggest problem is in recording the exact temperature at the exact time. But he also mentioned that this could be fixed with the right equipment and coding (or "just" some detailed temperature/time measering equipment?)

It was two years ago and I lost the interest in building such thing..  But maybe you are interested in it, would be happy to see some plans of building a tempermeter buy yourself )

A few thoughts:

1. Why take the chocolate out of the machine to mix the oils? (In order to create smaller flavored batches?) It may be that the choc is falling out of temper when put in the bowl. Also, Lorann oils are alcohol based... I believe. So in addition to being kind of cheap nasty oils (no offense), they are alcohol based, which choc does not like. You need an oil based flavoring oil. Either make your own or source one. 

2. Why do you need to add coconut oil? Cannabis is fat soluble and will join with the cocoa butter in the choc - assuming you're using couverture.

3. Ambient temp should be about 70 degrees with an optimal humidity of 50. 

4. Make sure your molds are near to temp as choc as possible. And, finally cooling the choc in a fridge for a sec or with a fan can help the set up. Finally, perhaps you have dirty molds? Though, based on the pics, looks like temp bloom to me as oppossed to sugar bloom. 

Good luck!

it measures the latent heat of crystallization - when liquids crystallize, or when crystals "melt" they either absorb or release heat.  A tempermeter measures the amount and time of this heat over a very specific cooling scenario, and then does some math for you to make the results usable.

I'd be the very first to sign up for 10 of these from you if you built one for $100 8-)

Chris -

I agree with you totally. However, I have been involved in many discussions with chocolate makers where the idea of spending $15k as a CapEx for a butter press is way out of their budget.

I think one of the challenges is that many chocolate makers self–identify as "bean–to–bar" and their thinking ends at bars. There are a lot more things you can do with chocolate than just bars.

Looking for a used machine. I've got quotes for new, but wanted to see if there was anything out there in Chocoland.

Are you looking for new or used?

Hello - Interested in the Selmi One, Color Ex, or Plus Ex and attachments if there. Would have to pay by credit card, some cash down possible dependent on price. Prefer single phase. 

Please email me: bunkburger@yahoo.com

Clay:

If a chocolate maker is only interested in making truly single origin chocolates, then obviously that's a superfluous acquisition, but what if the producer is also making milk and white chocolate, various couvertures and selling the cocoa powder and cocoa butter (ie, for beauty products)? Ethically sourced cocoa butter is not that cheap, is it? Stretched over the life of the machine, is more than $15k worth of cocoa butter (and "powder" - yes, I'm aware the fat content will be higher than the typical 10-12%) not produced? Do these machines not last that long? Please, feel free to play devil's advocate ...  

Was coming to a similar conclusion, but couldn't find any good info online. I appreciate the help all!

There is no water in chocolate, so no emulsification is going on.

What could be happening is bad mixing, so I would try a couple of experiments.

1. Don't add any coconut oil to the chocolate as it's melting. (You are using seed chocolate during the cool-down phase, right?) Take some chocolate out and mix in the flavored oils. Do you still get the blooming?
2. Same as 1) but instead of adding the flavoring oil add the coconut oil and stir.
3. Same as 1) but mix the flavoring oil into the coconut oil and mix that into the tempered chocolate.

You want to make sure that you do a good job of mixing everything together so you don't get streaking, which is different from blooming.

I don't know if that will solve your problem - but we will know if the problem is that the coconut oil you're adding during the melting phase is what's getting in the way of proper tempering. 

Sebastian is right.

There is no way that I know of to know what the variety of cacao is just by looking at it. Size is not an indicator - either very large or very small.

Color doesn't say anything as there are "Trinitario-hybrid" varieties (I am thinking of the acriollados in Nicaragua) that can be 10-30% white or pale (lila).

Aroma and taste are no help either.

That said, if you have been working with the same beans from multiple origins for a long period of time you can learn to distinguish between those reliably. However that won't help you when it comes to other sources.

Chocolate makers don't normally refine what's left over after pressing the oil out of it - it get ground into cocoa powder!

If you added it back in to a chocolate recipe it would be the same as not removing the fat to begin with.

Melangeurs don't have the same physical limitations as ball mills. You might be able to refine what's left over after pressing the butter out of it. What you'd have is a low-fat cocoa mass that could be mixed with sugar and, instead of refining it, mold it, and use it for making hot chocolate.

Chris:

Many chocolate makers don't make their own cocoa butter because they are committed to two-ingredient chocolate. For most of the rest who do, $15k in CapEx is a lot of cocoa butter! My personal feeling is that if you're using butter from a different origin as the beans then it's single origin but most use a definition that only covers the beans.

I certainly haven't seen as many as Sebastian. There are a few clues that can be suggestive but I haven't found any good indicator. Even smell and taste aren't a sure criteria.

Is a temper meter just a way to log and plot temperatures on a chocolate sample as it cools down?

Unless I'm missing something like added cooling, this sounds like a fairly trivial gadget. It seems all you would need is identical size containers (maybe disposable plastic cups), a controlled temperature environment, thermocouple and the data logger.

That would be less than $100 in parts, not thousands of dollars. What am I missing?

No.

For coating pans more information on

http://akaygam.com/en/panning-polishing/

 CP1200B portfolio sub.png - 612KB

For panning machines with more information on

http://akaygam.com/en/panning-polishing/

 CP1200B portfolio sub.png - 612KB

For chocolate lentils forming machine please visit http://akaygam.com/en/forming-filling/#dragee-chocolate

 RD600-2 portfolio sub.png - 543KB

Thanks again for sharing, Salvatore!

Is it possibly to identify a bean's species based on it's shape and size? I heard that forastero will often have a dimple and look very almond like.

Any tips for identifying a beans species if you had just a grab bag of different types?

Any help would be appreciated!

That´s really helpfull Clay, i had a better impression from IMSA.

I´ll go with your advice, but ihave one question.

Melangers and similar, and ball mills, allow me to refine liquor over 35% fat/butter content.

But, what about the degreased cocoa under that fat content? for example, what is left from the oil pressing in a "Nutrachef" or similar press equipment? how can i refine it?

Chris : As far as the  parts being manufactured in China then reassembled and Korea I do not have that answer. You can contact him directly. Here is a quote from the company I have attached it to the bottom of this message. Let me know what you think. Good luck. 

Here is a you tube link of China Sourcing Academy.  Check out this site their videos will help you regarding sourcing from China. You could also hire them as consultants.  They have many different videos on YouTube. 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgVIJD4dymgvTiEcOSoyFA

Here is the quote from National  Engineering. 

No, the tricor does not require a properly tempered 'control', if you will. As with any analytical instrument, it does require calbiration, which it maintains internally.  Since things like flavor release, color, hardness, bloom stability, etc all are a direct function of temper - and since temper is not a yes/no state (there are ranges of temper), if the lab was going to be used to assess such things, having a temper meter becomes a critical tool in defining your 'acceptable window' of temper to minimize the impact of temper on those other variables you are evaluating.  W/o it, you may come to the conclusion that beans xxx are 'better' than beans yyy for whatever reason, and that reason may have absolutely nothing to do with the beans, but rather the fact that the chocolate made with xxx beans was on the far 'left' of the temper spectrum, and the chocolate made with yyy beans were tempered to the far 'right' of the spectrum.

Clay: In my opinion, even that "more expensive" price is fairly reasonable. Again, I'm surprised more people aren't using the Delani or the National models (or, at least, aren't mentioning them on the relevant forum discussions on this site). Thanks for the information, and I'll probably be in touch about that press in the future, barring the unexpected emergence of some better option.

Photos below. Full disclosure - these are to be cannabis edibles. (It's legal here in Oregon now).  I am planning to add cannabis oil to the tempered chocolate, and we have found that it is best absorbed when activated and added (diluted) in coconut oil. Each of my recipes need to contain *some* coconut oil - I try to add the minimal amount in each instance. I thought that 1gm per 5# would not affect the outcome, but it seems it might be a problem. These chocolates do not currently contain cannabis, just coconut and flavoring oils. 

The coconut oil was added to the chocolate callets during the melt cycle, behind the baffle. My hypothesis was that it would emulsify during the temper process. The entire batch contained coconut oil, and it all bloomed. 

The chocolate that was flavored was ladled into a dry, warm bowl while in temper, and a few drops of each flavoring oil (LorAnn for 2, peppermint essential oil) was added in and stirred with a rubber spat. I warmed the oils in a water bath before adding them in.

As you can see from the pictures, I still had some shine and release from the moulds. The tablets with marshmallow, nuts, and toffee did not have any flavorings, just coconut oil. 

 bloomtest0401.jpg - 3.9MB

Hi Tim,

I had exactly the same issue with my premier grinder a little while, and it makes everything look pretty dammed gross. However....

I found a few ways of dealing with it:

1- after each batch you make clean the grinder bowl and remove the wheels from the axels and clean inside them with a pipe cleaner really thoroughly (as everyone has already suggested) - then dry them in the oven to ensure all water has evaporated

2- when re-fitting the wheels on the axels make sure there is a bit of the axel still poking out from the wheel so that when you tighten the nut onto the washer, the wheelse still move very freely, this is largely only a problem i found by cleaning multiple machines at the same time, as not all the wheelse are made exactly the same width.

3- adjust the plastic scraper arm thing so that it is not directly up against the metal side of the bowl when you have full tension screwed down onto the stone wheels. This was where i noticed the biggest cause of that grey stuff you see, it actually seems to be largely caused by the plastic scraper rubbing against the metal bowl side and very slowly creating fine metal dust particles. Over a short period this wouldnt cause a problem and wouldnt be noticeable enough (these machine are only made to be used for maximum 30minutes) but over say 12-24hour period like we use for grinding the chocolate and sugar down, these metal particles scrape off, and build up and up and then discolour the chocolate. Similar sort of thing if you ever take bits off a car for example, black stuff builds up parts that rub against each other

4- warm the bowl and stone wheels with a hairdryer or heat gun before adding ingredients, also helps to warm your liquid ingredients before adding too.

Hope that helps, it worked for me and since have had no problems.

Photos?

And please tell us more about how you are using the Chocovision and why (and when) you are adding coconut oil (a likely source of the problem) as well as the essential oils.

Hello! I am a new confectioner (chef turned pastry chef), learning as I go. I am working on a line of artisanal tablets/candy bars, using LorAnn or essential oils to flavor chocolate, and I am still experiencing bloom. I added approx 2 grams of coconut oil to the 5# dark couverture chocolate as it was melting. I am using an automatic tempering machine, (Chocovision Rev V) adding the warmed oils to tempered chocolate, and letting set overnight/days. The ambient temperature in the room is around 69*F but can get as warm as 74*. Is the temperature the problem? Any help is appreciated! 

David:

I have seen the IMSA equipment in operation during the Salon del Cacao y Chocolate in Lima in 2015 as well as at a customer site in Lima in 2014. I can't recommend it. It looks good and the prices are decent, but there are some serious build quality issues, especially with the cracker/winnower.

Going with the requirement for no DIY ... 

I can second Sebastian's recommendation of a Binder oven, especially at the scale you are going to be working at and for the intended purpose. I know for a fact that a  Binder FD53  is used for making both the liquor and chocolate samples for the International Cocoa of Excellence Awards. If your budget stretches I would go for the next size up though it's not necessary. There are no special installation issues with this oven that you'd need to consider when using a drum roaster.

As for grinding and refining, at the scale you're talking about I don't see why you need a multi-step process of disc grinder, ball mill, and roll-refiner. Though otherwise expensive, you can get a 12kg/batch melangeur from Kudvic for under US$10,000 with clear lid and their automatic temperature control system.

[ Premier Chocolate Refiners (not the basic grinder) could be used instead of the Kudvic. The batch size is much smaller (about 2kg) but they are very cheap (less than $300 each) and so you could buy a dozen of them and be processing several different recipes at the same time. ]

These melangeurs are not conches, but with some added hot air flow they do a creditable job that is acceptable for your use case scenarios. I have a non-DIY recommendation for airflow for the Premier refiners.

For small batch cracking and winnowing I would recommend the machines from CPS (Commodity Processing Systems) in the UK. There are two winnower sizes, get the large one. Expect to spend about £3000 ($5000) before shipping.

Again at such a small scale and for chocolate for which there is no seed, I can recommend The Chocolate Wave . It's under US$7000 before shipping and can temper 2-3kg of chocolate in a couple of minutes. While you will need to learn how to temper properly (which us a good thing in any event), it's going to be a lot faster in use than a small-batch tempering machine from Chocovision.

I cannot recommend the Pomati T5 for tempering own-made chocolate. The entire cooling system is just too small (compressor capacity and length of the tempering auger) for consistent tempering results for chocolate that is even slightly more viscous than couverture.

While a temper meter like the Tricor is not a bad recommendation, if I recall correctly from talking with their tech guys (and Sebastian please correct me if I am wrong on this), is that it requires having a sample of properly tempered chocolate to compare against. So it's kind of a chicken and egg situation. You can't measure proper temper unless you have properly tempered chocolate to begin with. They do make a machine to measure rheology and that might be interesting.

I also have connections with a refrigeration supply company in the UK (Angel) that offers a 20-pan temperature and humidity–controlled fridge specifically for crystallizing and holding chocolate. It's about £4000 ($6500) before shipping from the UK.

I can help you get quotations and order machines from Kudvic, Chocolate Wave, and Angel Refrigeration. I don't have a connection at Binder or CPS but I can get them for you if you need. 

That's optimistic.  I'd consider 35-37% as the minimum operational range.

Chris:

The price is about US$14,000 for a 50kg/hr press (that's mass, not butter), before shipping. If you decide you want to place an order please do it through me so I can expedite and keep track of it for you.

Caotech just gave me their response. Their ball mill needs a minimum fat/butter content of 30% to operate.

Salvatore: Thanks for your response. My assumption was that National is the original designer/producer. When you spoke with them, did you happen to ask if the machines are actually built in Korea with parts manufactured in Korea? My concern would be that it's simply designed or conceived or sold by a Korean company while actually being made in China using cheap parts. If they are the real deal, it seems that many people would already be using them - if they work as they claim, the price is quite good, no? Surely if the design is good enough to copy, many someones out there must be using the originals successfully, no? Yet, all these forum discussions seem to lament a lack of smaller presses under $25,000...?

Clay: Indeed, that's the spec sheet I found on their Spanish language site, and the manufacturing/correcting scenario you described is what I assumed. I have already requested a quote via their site, though haven't heard back (though, weekend), so if you already have that information to forward to me, or if you care to share a ballpark figure with the forum, feel free.

The 1st ever DC Chocolate Festival will be held this Saturday, April 9th, 2016. There will be about 30 chocolate businesses sampling and selling their products, including a lot of local DC chocolate makers, chocolatiers, etc., but also several chocolate makers from outside of DC. Additionally, there will be several classes/demos/presentations in a separate learning room.

Info and tickets are still available at http://www.dcchocolatefestival.com/ . Also, I believe there are still one or two vendor slots available, so if anyone is interested in attending as a last-minute vendor email me at info@potomacchocolate.com.

-Ben

I would not personally use the ball mill for anything other than making liquor, given your setup.  Also consider that it's going to be a very loud piece of equpiment to operate.

For automated small batch tempering, you might consider the chocovision revolation unit (or perhaps a couple of them).  If you're lookign for consistency in tempering results, also consider a tricor temper-meter.  

Something i omitted above would be two very precise scales - one that's a very small measurement (0.000x grams), and one that allows for kg size measurements (xx.xxkg) - those can run you a few thousand dollars as well.

hi thanks for your reply, but occupied a mélanger but a machine that makes me liquor and then use the Melanger

I forgot about something. They are planning to buy a refrigerator for tempering and keeping samples. I honestly don´t have any idea about the specifications of this equipment, i have only tempered by hand in Bogotá which is 20°C bellow from here.

Thanks!

Hi Nicole, 

I dont think mine was a grease issue afterall. It looked similar to what I see at the bottom of the bowl on the Santha, and had a look like it was trying to keep itself separated from the chocolate.  After looking at some chocolate after it had solidified though, it was most definately not grease. It was a clumping of granite dust.

In the santha, the only thing I can recommend is cleaning out the center shaft and the bottom of the bowl (outside) really well and wipe down (do not degrease) the wheel assembly that the bowl sits on/in.  If you feel the need to degrease I strongly reccomend getting another foodsafe lube to replace the grease on the wheel assembly. I think that grease/lube is necessary to prevent friction of between the two different materials.